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where does phil hellmuth stand among the great players in history?

he does have 11 bracelets now, but he's never won a bracelet in a non-hold'em game and is a joke among top cash game professionals because of his poor play in live games...so if you think it's fair to compare, i'd like to know where people see him compared to doyle, chan, chip reese, etc.

Public Comments

1. ...phil who?
2. Top 5 easily with what he has accomplished. And he keeps winning with a bunch of amateurs coming into the new events (though it will fall with the popularity of poker)
3. I think when you compare players, you have to divide them into different categories. For example. Hellmuth would probably be in the two five as far as NO LIMIT HOLD EM TOURNAMENT players are concerned. Hey, his accomplishments in these type of tournaments are unmatched. If you want to talk about overall player, where you included all of the card games , cash and tournament then he is probably in the top 20 but thats it. You are probably looking at Doyle Brunson, Todd Brunson, Chip Reese, Daniel Negraunu, and Phil Ivey somewhere in the top 10.
4. The rip on Phil is that he can only play no limit, and that he feast on a lot of the weaker players at the table to build up his chips. But i can say that he has made final tables in other event, like Omaha. But i have heard that he is not the best cash game player around but i do think his bracelets speak for themselves, he has 11 more then i will ever have so you have to give that a lot of respect for sure. Phil does play other games, but his best game is no limit. I give a ton of respect for the great player he is, and put him number 3-4 all time.
5. I follow Sin City comment, Don't forget, he might only won bracelets in NLH, but made the money, and the final table in different form of poker too. I'm not saying that you have to put him next to Doyle, Ivey or Reese, it's 2 different type of poker and player. But if you talk about WSOP, the amount of time he made the money (in several type of poker), and now 11 bracelets......Well the number speak for themselves. He's the poker brat. But NLH is his game. He said it himself "The WSOP are the reason why I play poker" He's a smart guy, and actually nice outside of poker ( he was very humble during the interview after winning is 11). He knows where he stand and know where is good at. And yes, the mixed game 2K/4K Limit at bobby's room is not his place. Take care