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Where do "professional" poker players play at?

Im learning more about poker to expand my ability to assault casinos, i have been playing in private games with success. I went to a casino to inquire about any tournaments they may be holding since i happened to be there that day. They explained to me that the tournament cost 52 dollars, of which 12 goes straight to the casino!! I was so shocked by this that i begin to question weather playing poker at a casino is feasible to actually expect a profit. That 12$ commission represents something of a 20% disadvantage! I just don't see how any player can hold an edge over other players larger than that so they expect to win money. And what about in the games where they take a rake? like a commission out of every pot. How do you overcome that? Most importantly, how do you KNOW/PROVE that you are expecting to overcome those factors?

Public Comments

1. A 20% rake is just too steep. I'm sure these tournaments have a few fish in them but even if you are a phenomenal player and could overcome the rake, you probably wouldn't have much more than a 5% return on investment because of the ridiculous rake. So, the tourney wouldn't even be worth your time because for a 52 dollar buy in and a couple hours of solid play, you would have an expected profit of 2 or 3 dollars. The low stakes cash games, however, can be beat because of all of the bad players and the fact that the rake a good player pays is so much less than that of a bad player because the good player doesn't get involved in as many pots. I wouldn't touch a tourney with a rake of more than 10%. If you are going to play a tourney in a casino, it seems the high buy in tourneys are the only ones that have a favorable rake but these are often too pricey for a beginning poker player. For players who aren't professionals, casino cash games are where the money is at.
2. That's tournament. If you win, you should get a lot more so don't worry about the $12 commission. Casino got to make money because they have to provide location, tables, cards, dealer, etc.... not like on-line. You still pay on-line but it's just not as much.
3. Tournaments are usually a fixed fee in which the casino gets a percentage. The casino provides non-gaming chips meaning that you cannot cash them in. There may or may not be an opportunity for a rebuy. You play until all players are eliminated, and the winner is awarded a predetermined prize. There are regular, non tournament games, that you can play at a casino, and the casino takes a rake. Usually the dealer will only rake after a predetermined minimum pot size has been reached. This is how the casino makes money. The dealer makes money because he relies on players tipping them. Poker is one of the games in the casino in which the house makes very little money. It comes down to a little bit of luck and a whole lot of skill.
4. In lower limit tournaments, they try to lure you on with the chance of a fairly large payout for a small entry fee. Chances are good that the blinds will increase fairly quickly (probably every 20 minutes). If you don't hit any cards, you could find yourself on the sidelines pretty quick. Their goal is to get you in the casino and let you play for a while. Then, you'll probably get knocked out, so you'll sit at a table and play a live game. It can be a lot of fun to play, but it will have almost no bearing on how well you play poker. In live money games, the rake is part of the cost of playing poker. In some casinos, they charge an hourly rate. The casino needs to make some money. As a general rule, a good player expects to make about 2 'big bets' per hour in the long run. If you want to make $100 an hour, you need to play at least $25/$50. You overcome the rake by playing solid poker. Don't throw your money away by betting on mediocre cards. If you call when you have a bad hand, it will cost a lot more than you'll lose to the rake. In a live game, it is also customary to tip the dealer when you win a pot. So make sure you consider that also. Remember also that the professionals play in games with limits of $2000/$4000 (per bet) or more. Paying a few dollars per hour for the seat is chump change. (They usually play at Bellagio in Las Vegas.)
5. That size of a rake is not unusual in small tourneys. The entry fee as a percentage usually goes down in the bigger tourneys. At the upcoming bike tourney, the $1500 tourney has an $80 entry fee. Of course, the players are tougher in the higher stakes tourneys too. You overcome the rake by playing very, very well. You MUST take it into account when making decisions. Sometimes you can't play a hand, because the EV (expected value) is not enough to overcome the rake. Once again in the higher games, the rake, as a percentage of the pot, decreases. Also some games use a time charge where players are charged every 1/2 hour. You PROVE you can overcome these factors by playing for several hundred hours and keeping ACCURATE records. If you aren't winning after 300 hours of play, you've PROVED that you aren't overcoming these factors. Don't assume that the results after 50-100 hours proves anything. It's too small of a sample size.
6. Sorry, but what is the 'rake' ? I thought the casino just takes a percentage of the entry fee which goes out of the winnigs at the end? Sorrry to answer a question with a question
7. The entry fee sounds a little high but it will be just on the initial buy in any re-buys don't have a fee so all the money goes into the prize fund. The casino has to provide the dealer's, the supervisors, the manager, the runners, the chips, the cards, the tables, the paper work, the rules and the area for the tournaments so they charge. In other live games you will pay a rake which will be dependent on the size of the blinds the lower the blinds the bigger the % the casino will charge or you can pay a flat hourly rate to hire the dealer and equipment. KNOW/PROVE this you can't, you need to win. Think of all of these as a charge for taking part.